My wife and I have what some might say a unique approach to going to church these days – we don’t. I suppose for the average Joe to read that he wouldn’t think much of it. “They’re just like everyone else in the world.” But, for those who were close to us growing up and especially in college, it is quite a change for us.
The full story (or explanation) as to why this is now the case is quite a long one (one that I am happy to have with anyone given we both have the time), but the long-and-short of it is that we now feel the community of God is best expressed organically or naturally in every day life. Whether community happens intentionally (i.e. a planned time with friends – dinner & drinks, coffee, NBA basketball, etc.) or by happenstance (i.e. meeting a stranger on the train or plane and having a conversation about life, god, etc.; seeing a friend at an opportune moment and getting to catch up), either way, opportunities for Christian fellowship are always available. So, for my wife and myself, we are trying to learn when to recognize these opportunities and capitalize on them. Most Sundays, however, you won’t find us in a pew.
Currently, we find consistent community with a few groups of people. The first is a group of 8 (4 couples) that get together every other Sunday evening. One spouse from each couple is in med school; two of the other spouses are physician assistants (one in training still); one bio-chemistry pHd candidate; and then me. We get together to talk about life, life with Christ, and life with Christ in the medical profession. Because the med school schedule is pretty demanding, all 8 of us really were desiring a bit more intimate connection with Christians in the profession. So far, the meetings have been quite profitable and encouraging.
The second is a group of about 4-5 couples that get together once a month and have dinner together. It has been a real blessing to get to know those we didn’t before our dinner gatherings started. Interestingly enough, right around Easter this Spring, we all opened up a bit and realized that many of us are all in the same boat regarding a few things spiritually, theologically, and ecclesiastically. It is fun to see how Father shaped the group in such a way for us all to be together at the very time we needed comfort and encouragement in areas in which only those who have experienced them could understand. Praise Him.
For a year and a half now, Beccah and I have desired community like this. I write tonight to encourage those who are familiar with the situation and let them know that we are not alone.
So, how exactly is what you call “intentional” different from my “intentionality” when i go to church on Sunday? Why is it any less “organic?” My friends and I are all part of the same “institution,” but the fellowship is genuine, Christocentric, and edifying. Is the difference a building? A leadership structure in the local church? I guess what I’m getting at is that I don’t see that it is necessary to abandon the expression of the Kingdom found in traditional forms of “church” to get what you’re looking for. It seems that you may have erected a false dichotomy (for yourself). I know that you don’t project this on anyone else (we’ve talked about how one thing may be right for one person and wrong for someone else), but it still seems to me that you have not given warrent as to why you feel the “need” for genuine Christianity to be expressed the way you are pursuing it. Rather, it strikes me as a matter of preference – not as one of substance (that is to say, this looks more “organic/New Testament/missional…pick the hip vocabulary word of choice).
I hope this doesn’t come across as harsh…I know it’s rather blunt. But remember, I agree with you way more than I disagree. Still, I don’t feel like I’ve seen a real reason. And it’s okay if there isn’t one. But people need to get honest and say “I would PREFER church to be this way” and get away from the idea that “my way of doing church/Christianity can beat up your way of…”
Love you, bro. Looking forward to hanging out more when we move down in LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!!
“So, how exactly is what you call “intentional” different from my “intentionality” when i go to church on Sunday?”
–> It’s not.
“Why is it any less “organic?””
–> I use the term “organic” in a way that denotes spontaneity and time together that is unencumbered. Even the most unstructured time in a traditional form of Sunday (or any other day) morning worship will always have to fit within certain parameters – be they time, worship style, sermon topic, etc.
“My friends and I are all part of the same “institution,” but the fellowship is genuine, Christocentric, and edifying. Is the difference a building? A leadership structure in the local church?”
–> I expect that your fellowship is genuine, Christocentric, and edifying – never denied that it was. As far as buildings are concerned, they are not needed to experience church. But, they are certainly needed to facilitate getting a large group together in order to deliver a preplanned agenda on a certain day of the week. Leadership structures: a subject I have issues with, yet unanswered questions as far as their utility is concerned.
“It seems that you may have erected a false dichotomy (for yourself).”
–> Maybe I have, though I do not think so. The dichotomy that I see is this: I have yet to be a part of or even heard of a traditional form of church that had the same type of communal experience that Jesus and the disciples had (ultimately what I, and I hope others, am after).
“I know that you don’t project this on anyone else (we’ve talked about how one thing may be right for one person and wrong for someone else), but it still seems to me that you have not given warrent as to why you feel the “need” for genuine Christianity to be expressed the way you are pursuing it.”
–> You are correct in stating that I do not project this on anyone. I strive not to. I certainly have my opinions on community (and with all opinions, he who holds them believes them to be correct; still, opinions they remain) and I am still working them out. They are changing constantly. As far as warrant is concerned, it hasn’t been that important to me to express it yet (largely due to the above statement). This blog has certainly been a venue for me to communicate my thoughts, and embedded within those thoughts I’m sure a warrant can be found.
“[I]t strikes me as a matter of preference.”
–> Of course it is. That shouldn’t be a problem.
“But people need to get honest and say “I would PREFER church to be this way” and get away from the idea that “my way of doing church/Christianity can beat up your way of…””
–> In any of this post, did I even come close to saying this or exude this attitude? Or, has this comment thread become a place for you to champion that poignant statement? (I hope that doesn’t come across as harsh.)
“Love you, bro. Looking forward to hanging out more when we move down in LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!!!”
–> No argument or rebuttal here.
Dustin,
Great interaction! I’m really enjoying it.
I guess it seems to me that you are saying, or at least implying, that community as you understand it is more Christocentric, more New Testament, and more “red-letter” than traditional expressions of the Church. This all has the air of superiority, and a hint of arrogance in it. So, to answer directly, the very nature of the subject does lend itself to your position implying that “my way of doing/being the Church can beat up your way…”
That’s the issue. I think you have done an exceptional job of not projecting your hopes and understandings of the church onto others, until now. Your post did say,
“e now feel the community of God is best expressed organically or naturally in every day life.”
It’s the “best” part that is so troubling. This states unequivocally that you feel the way you are doing this is best, and, by definition, any other attempts that differ are inferior.
While it may be an opinion (as you noted, they all are), the difference is that there is little room for you to do what you have done historically when using language like “best” without qualifying it with “for us it seems like…” or “at this stage in our life, we think that…”
Your appeal to the Bible and the historical narratives of Christ seem like prooftexts (albeit good ones), but this time I do think you project your ecclesiology on others (which is quite a change).
Still, it’s not biblical without a leadership structure (of at least some kind).
Let’s pick up the discussion next week when I’m in town. Thanks for helping me think through these things.
peace.
If anyone else is reading this: do you feel this is what I am trying to say at all?
It really seems like pure polemics, and I don’t even feel like responding to it.
Well I’m not much of the blog commentor, so I am gonna try and make this as short as possible.
I think both of you are right…and wrong. I have learned in the past 6 – 18 months that I don’t think we should seek a universal right way of living out community. I have found that community, significance, and purpose, can be found at both ends of the spectrum. Whether you go to “church” Sunday mornings and evenings and then Wednesday nights, or if you choose to go and spend time with friends and be the church. For me the best type of “church” if you will is a combination of both. With a community working in a cell based type of structure, I feel that heart issues can come out easier than “walking down the front for prayer” (I know from personal experience). And with a more traditional structure I feel that correct and precise theology can be taught(not saying it can’t in a nontraditional but i feel that it is harder). I think that the “”BEST”" is a combination for me. A cell based church that meets ONE time and only One time a week as a corporate institution. There are many reasons why I think this works the best but I’ve already wasted abut 25 minutes on something I don’t like doing so Im gonna wrap up or maybe I should say my final point is
Personally I think a lot of community is lost in a more traditional church and people and souls get left out of the Kingdom of God because they just pass through the cracks on Sunday morning and really don’t have anybody to open up to. However I feel that it is easier to find community at a traditional church because tons of Christians are centrally located at least one a week. So its easier to find them and get connected to a community.
With a nontraditional community I feel that once found it can be life changing, but finding them is the hard part. Or maybe I should say getting invited to one. I feel that these community things can get closed off to outsiders.
To finally end with what i’m trying to say is that I think both of them can work but there are bad things about both of them. And I feel Ben is focused on the negative things of community stuff like no leadership, no structure, and no written theological statement which I know he loves.
And I feel that Dustin is focusing on the negative things that can happen at traditional churches like leaders manipulating things, and agendas being promoted and not feeling like there is much freedom.
Ok well Hopefully that makes sense,
Travis, when did you become such the synthesizer? Good analysis.